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	<title>Comments on: duckrabbit photography competition &#8211; WIN $1000</title>
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	<description>and this is our BLOG, where photography, art, audio and journalism collide (sparks may fly)</description>
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		<title>By: susan evans</title>
		<link>http://duckrabbit.info/blog/2009/06/pdn-passive-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-6930</link>
		<dc:creator>susan evans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 18:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://duckrabbit.info/blog/?p=3511#comment-6930</guid>
		<description>So, Who Won?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, Who Won?</p>
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		<title>By: Diversity and photography &#8211; a thoughtful response &#124; duckrabbit - we produce beautifully crafted multimedia</title>
		<link>http://duckrabbit.info/blog/2009/06/pdn-passive-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-6545</link>
		<dc:creator>Diversity and photography &#8211; a thoughtful response &#124; duckrabbit - we produce beautifully crafted multimedia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 09:10:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://duckrabbit.info/blog/?p=3511#comment-6545</guid>
		<description>[...] and photography &#8211; a thoughtful response   Some time ago duckrabbit ran a silly competition offering $1000 to anyone who could successfully justify to Stan Banos why PDN set up a 22 strong [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and photography &#8211; a thoughtful response   Some time ago duckrabbit ran a silly competition offering $1000 to anyone who could successfully justify to Stan Banos why PDN set up a 22 strong [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://duckrabbit.info/blog/2009/06/pdn-passive-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-6543</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 21:51:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://duckrabbit.info/blog/?p=3511#comment-6543</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve read through this thread with great interest and am glad that, more or less, this discussion has been as civil as it has. I agree with a portion of Bryant Hawkins last statement that the industry ought to be a bit more self-reflective as to why racial disparities exist, if indeed they do. 

I find it very interesting that the exact same issues that have been raised here, have been raised in other contexts were there are stark disparities (or absences) of minorities in a given profession or industry. Just a few months ago, the debate was about Sotomayor. For the past several decades it&#039;s about the lack (other than a few notables) of non-stereotyped-acting roles for minorities or opportunities for directing, etc. The same debate arises when searching for faculty at universities, or CEO&#039;s of corporations. The claim is often made that &quot;they are not racist, they were just selecting the best most qualified people out there.&quot;  

While I agree that folks tend to be good (and not racist), a search for talent is only as good as how wide one&#039;s search actually is. As a lawyer, when asked for recommendations for a board position, mine might tend to be lawyer-heavy (if I don&#039;t make a concerted effort to think outside that box and outside the blinders that I might inherently have because of the interactions I have, both socially and professionally). Often, I&#039;ll ask non-attorneys for their thoughts to ensure that my own blinders don&#039;t prohibit me from overlooking well qualified people I might otherwise miss. Same thing I suspect occurs when searching for PDN judges.

The fact that these institutions/industries have lower proportions of minorities in them than one might otherwise expect is partially structural. Access to some of the opportunities to gain a foothold in an industry, whether by lack of educational opporutnities or by lack of &#039;contacts&#039; is exacerbated greatly by the fact that a benign, self-perpetuating vicious cycle continues to lock out diversity. Until affirmative action, which isn&#039;t about quotas, but about providing an equal opportunity for qualified people to get their foot in the door, universities were largely devoid of minorities, businesses didn&#039;t outreach to minority applicants and still focused recruitment efforts in the same non-diverse manner.

Sometimes I think that discussions like these is enough for an institution to take steps towards asking some hard questions. Other times, in the case of more entrenched gender, racial, sex, and age discrimination, unfortunately, it takes more drastic (legal) action to undue those &quot;blinders.&quot;

I think the whole Sotomayor debate is instructive here. One one level having her as a Supreme Court justice is symbolic and for many Latinos represents a highly-visible example of having &quot;made it&quot; and that person can used as a role model for our kids. On another level, as the Supreme Court itself has acknowledged and (more recently in the past decade and a half) corporations, diversity helps to bring a diversity of viewpoints and perspectives to the table -- whether at a law school, at a marketing meeting, at the Supreme Court, in a college classroom, or at the dinner table. Certainly, having a diversity of perspectives while judging a photography contest could prove just as beneficial.Does this mean, that the 24 judges didn&#039;t judge based only on content, form, technical skill, etc.? Nope. But just focusing on that question ignores the broader issue of the existence of a disparity.

At any rate, I&#039;m looking forward to see what the 2010 PDN judge pool looks like.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve read through this thread with great interest and am glad that, more or less, this discussion has been as civil as it has. I agree with a portion of Bryant Hawkins last statement that the industry ought to be a bit more self-reflective as to why racial disparities exist, if indeed they do. </p>
<p>I find it very interesting that the exact same issues that have been raised here, have been raised in other contexts were there are stark disparities (or absences) of minorities in a given profession or industry. Just a few months ago, the debate was about Sotomayor. For the past several decades it&#8217;s about the lack (other than a few notables) of non-stereotyped-acting roles for minorities or opportunities for directing, etc. The same debate arises when searching for faculty at universities, or CEO&#8217;s of corporations. The claim is often made that &#8220;they are not racist, they were just selecting the best most qualified people out there.&#8221;  </p>
<p>While I agree that folks tend to be good (and not racist), a search for talent is only as good as how wide one&#8217;s search actually is. As a lawyer, when asked for recommendations for a board position, mine might tend to be lawyer-heavy (if I don&#8217;t make a concerted effort to think outside that box and outside the blinders that I might inherently have because of the interactions I have, both socially and professionally). Often, I&#8217;ll ask non-attorneys for their thoughts to ensure that my own blinders don&#8217;t prohibit me from overlooking well qualified people I might otherwise miss. Same thing I suspect occurs when searching for PDN judges.</p>
<p>The fact that these institutions/industries have lower proportions of minorities in them than one might otherwise expect is partially structural. Access to some of the opportunities to gain a foothold in an industry, whether by lack of educational opporutnities or by lack of &#8216;contacts&#8217; is exacerbated greatly by the fact that a benign, self-perpetuating vicious cycle continues to lock out diversity. Until affirmative action, which isn&#8217;t about quotas, but about providing an equal opportunity for qualified people to get their foot in the door, universities were largely devoid of minorities, businesses didn&#8217;t outreach to minority applicants and still focused recruitment efforts in the same non-diverse manner.</p>
<p>Sometimes I think that discussions like these is enough for an institution to take steps towards asking some hard questions. Other times, in the case of more entrenched gender, racial, sex, and age discrimination, unfortunately, it takes more drastic (legal) action to undue those &#8220;blinders.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think the whole Sotomayor debate is instructive here. One one level having her as a Supreme Court justice is symbolic and for many Latinos represents a highly-visible example of having &#8220;made it&#8221; and that person can used as a role model for our kids. On another level, as the Supreme Court itself has acknowledged and (more recently in the past decade and a half) corporations, diversity helps to bring a diversity of viewpoints and perspectives to the table &#8212; whether at a law school, at a marketing meeting, at the Supreme Court, in a college classroom, or at the dinner table. Certainly, having a diversity of perspectives while judging a photography contest could prove just as beneficial.Does this mean, that the 24 judges didn&#8217;t judge based only on content, form, technical skill, etc.? Nope. But just focusing on that question ignores the broader issue of the existence of a disparity.</p>
<p>At any rate, I&#8217;m looking forward to see what the 2010 PDN judge pool looks like.</p>
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		<title>By: Bryant Hawkins</title>
		<link>http://duckrabbit.info/blog/2009/06/pdn-passive-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-6052</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryant Hawkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 21:49:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://duckrabbit.info/blog/?p=3511#comment-6052</guid>
		<description>When I read this the first time, I thought, &quot;yes, that&#039;s a problem.&quot;
However, the more I think about it, the less I think it is. I agree with Photo Grapher about the ratio. For instance, in the photojournalism program I&#039;m in, there are maybe 20 serious students. Only maybe two or three are not white. Both our professors are black, so it isn&#039;t like the system is pitted against non-white photojournalist students. There just aren&#039;t as many interested in the program. I don&#039;t know why that is, but it&#039;s true. 
To blame PDN of &quot;passive racism&quot; in a pool where the primary work-force is white seems backwards. Maybe the industry needs to figure out why it is mostly white. That is where we should be putting our energy.
In response to David Robin: why should PDN actively seek out different colored people? That is racism. Granted, it might seem like &quot;positive&quot; race-selection, but isn&#039;t it far more honest to take a cross section of the photojournalist community to judge the community?
I do agree that there is a certain worldview that people of a certain color tend to hold, but to automatically assume that these judges will judge a certain way because they are white is just as racist as segregated schools or racial slurs. Maybe PDN could use a little more diversity (it never hurt), to call their policies racist seems short sighted. People are people. I think these judges have enough intergrity to judge photos based on form, content, etc.
-B</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I read this the first time, I thought, &#8220;yes, that&#8217;s a problem.&#8221;<br />
However, the more I think about it, the less I think it is. I agree with Photo Grapher about the ratio. For instance, in the photojournalism program I&#8217;m in, there are maybe 20 serious students. Only maybe two or three are not white. Both our professors are black, so it isn&#8217;t like the system is pitted against non-white photojournalist students. There just aren&#8217;t as many interested in the program. I don&#8217;t know why that is, but it&#8217;s true.<br />
To blame PDN of &#8220;passive racism&#8221; in a pool where the primary work-force is white seems backwards. Maybe the industry needs to figure out why it is mostly white. That is where we should be putting our energy.<br />
In response to David Robin: why should PDN actively seek out different colored people? That is racism. Granted, it might seem like &#8220;positive&#8221; race-selection, but isn&#8217;t it far more honest to take a cross section of the photojournalist community to judge the community?<br />
I do agree that there is a certain worldview that people of a certain color tend to hold, but to automatically assume that these judges will judge a certain way because they are white is just as racist as segregated schools or racial slurs. Maybe PDN could use a little more diversity (it never hurt), to call their policies racist seems short sighted. People are people. I think these judges have enough intergrity to judge photos based on form, content, etc.<br />
-B</p>
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		<title>By: On butt-gazing and race-baiting &#171; &#8230;</title>
		<link>http://duckrabbit.info/blog/2009/06/pdn-passive-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-5614</link>
		<dc:creator>On butt-gazing and race-baiting &#171; &#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 16:39:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://duckrabbit.info/blog/?p=3511#comment-5614</guid>
		<description>[...] of all-white judges for their Photo Annual competition. The idea was subsequently magnified by a  $1000 challenge by the DuckRabbit guys. Word spread, and the topic was picked up by more prominent photobloggers, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of all-white judges for their Photo Annual competition. The idea was subsequently magnified by a  $1000 challenge by the DuckRabbit guys. Word spread, and the topic was picked up by more prominent photobloggers, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Skin color and the photography industry &#124; dvafoto</title>
		<link>http://duckrabbit.info/blog/2009/06/pdn-passive-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-4883</link>
		<dc:creator>Skin color and the photography industry &#124; dvafoto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 01:54:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://duckrabbit.info/blog/?p=3511#comment-4883</guid>
		<description>[...] magazines, for instance.). What started as an observation at Reciprocity Failure turned into an incendiary accusation and &#8220;contest&#8221; at Duckrabbit and then blossomed into a conversation in the photography blog echo chamber. Prison Photography, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] magazines, for instance.). What started as an observation at Reciprocity Failure turned into an incendiary accusation and &#8220;contest&#8221; at Duckrabbit and then blossomed into a conversation in the photography blog echo chamber. Prison Photography, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Robin</title>
		<link>http://duckrabbit.info/blog/2009/06/pdn-passive-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-4834</link>
		<dc:creator>David Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 23:15:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://duckrabbit.info/blog/?p=3511#comment-4834</guid>
		<description>Responding to David Schloss...

Blind spots have nothing to do with age,sex,race or religion.  The fact that PDN has a young staff of predominately women does not mean they are immune to having a blind spot when it comes to seeking out a truly diverse group of judges.  Vigilance is the key to ensuring that diverse voices are not silenced as we all stand to be inspired, challenged and creatively provoked by a broader pool of talent.  

We can all do better at making sure that our view of the world continues to broaden as opposed to the less creative alternative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Responding to David Schloss&#8230;</p>
<p>Blind spots have nothing to do with age,sex,race or religion.  The fact that PDN has a young staff of predominately women does not mean they are immune to having a blind spot when it comes to seeking out a truly diverse group of judges.  Vigilance is the key to ensuring that diverse voices are not silenced as we all stand to be inspired, challenged and creatively provoked by a broader pool of talent.  </p>
<p>We can all do better at making sure that our view of the world continues to broaden as opposed to the less creative alternative.</p>
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		<title>By: David Schloss</title>
		<link>http://duckrabbit.info/blog/2009/06/pdn-passive-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-4717</link>
		<dc:creator>David Schloss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 03:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://duckrabbit.info/blog/?p=3511#comment-4717</guid>
		<description>Okay, while I think this is oddly fascinating I have to reply to something.

I was the Technology Editor at PDN for five years. The place is hardly an &quot;old boy&#039;s network.&quot; The publisher is a woman, the EIC is a woman, most of the staff I worked with were women. Most of the staff I worked with were young, the majority were younger than me (and I was under 37 the whole time I worked there). 

Staff wasn&#039;t allowed to go on junkets, we paid our own way to trade shows and events, we picked up the bill when we were out with manufacturers so there was no indiscretion. Products that came in for review were either returned or purchased (at retail) from the manufacturer. Advertising dollars never affected our editorial coverage and the ad teams were completely independent and separate from editorial. 

The photographic industry (not photographers, the industry) as a whole is rather young, and while there are friendships there, there isn&#039;t the &quot;you scratch my back and I&#039;ll scratch yours&quot; rule that&#039;s the heart of an old-boy&#039;s network. The photographers I&#039;ve had the pleasure to work with as a result of my PDN tenure were as a rule kind, sharing and friendly, and didn&#039;t base business decisions on country-club dinners and cigar smoking sessions, but based on the desire to create great art, and to make great friends. 

I&#039;m very, very proud to have worked at PDN. While you can cast aspersions at the selection of judges (and man, look what a talented bunch of people they have on this panel) don&#039;t slag the magazine. The staff of PDN are (as are many in the magazine world) overworked, underpaid and dedicated to providing the kick-ass content that the rest of the industry looks up to as the benchmark for quality and excellence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, while I think this is oddly fascinating I have to reply to something.</p>
<p>I was the Technology Editor at PDN for five years. The place is hardly an &#8220;old boy&#8217;s network.&#8221; The publisher is a woman, the EIC is a woman, most of the staff I worked with were women. Most of the staff I worked with were young, the majority were younger than me (and I was under 37 the whole time I worked there). </p>
<p>Staff wasn&#8217;t allowed to go on junkets, we paid our own way to trade shows and events, we picked up the bill when we were out with manufacturers so there was no indiscretion. Products that came in for review were either returned or purchased (at retail) from the manufacturer. Advertising dollars never affected our editorial coverage and the ad teams were completely independent and separate from editorial. </p>
<p>The photographic industry (not photographers, the industry) as a whole is rather young, and while there are friendships there, there isn&#8217;t the &#8220;you scratch my back and I&#8217;ll scratch yours&#8221; rule that&#8217;s the heart of an old-boy&#8217;s network. The photographers I&#8217;ve had the pleasure to work with as a result of my PDN tenure were as a rule kind, sharing and friendly, and didn&#8217;t base business decisions on country-club dinners and cigar smoking sessions, but based on the desire to create great art, and to make great friends. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m very, very proud to have worked at PDN. While you can cast aspersions at the selection of judges (and man, look what a talented bunch of people they have on this panel) don&#8217;t slag the magazine. The staff of PDN are (as are many in the magazine world) overworked, underpaid and dedicated to providing the kick-ass content that the rest of the industry looks up to as the benchmark for quality and excellence.</p>
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		<title>By: David Robin</title>
		<link>http://duckrabbit.info/blog/2009/06/pdn-passive-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-4570</link>
		<dc:creator>David Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 21:48:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://duckrabbit.info/blog/?p=3511#comment-4570</guid>
		<description>Funny how there is no mention of age discrimination when the Young Guns or Thirty Under Thirty competitions are held.  What about an Old Guns Show or Fifty Over Fifty competition?  Shouldn&#039;t we look also at sexism then?  What about women-only photo competitions, articles or organizations?  Should we have no-women-allowed photo competitions or men-only photo organizations?  

I think this is a great discussion.  One in which I would love to take up on my blog on a much broader scale.....
http://tumbleweedproject.blogspot.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny how there is no mention of age discrimination when the Young Guns or Thirty Under Thirty competitions are held.  What about an Old Guns Show or Fifty Over Fifty competition?  Shouldn&#8217;t we look also at sexism then?  What about women-only photo competitions, articles or organizations?  Should we have no-women-allowed photo competitions or men-only photo organizations?  </p>
<p>I think this is a great discussion.  One in which I would love to take up on my blog on a much broader scale&#8230;..<br />
<a href="http://tumbleweedproject.blogspot.com">http://tumbleweedproject.blogspot.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Stan B.</title>
		<link>http://duckrabbit.info/blog/2009/06/pdn-passive-racism/comment-page-1/#comment-4525</link>
		<dc:creator>Stan B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 23:36:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://duckrabbit.info/blog/?p=3511#comment-4525</guid>
		<description>How many Whites would be comfortable being judged by a 24 member Black, Hispanic or Asian jury for anything? I&#039;m 100% certain (no doubt whatsoever) that if they lost, the very thought that race played any kind of factor in the their rejection would never, ever even enter into there minds. You can rest assured of that! 

Again, do you honestly think PDN would have gone to print with a 24 member all male jury in 2009?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How many Whites would be comfortable being judged by a 24 member Black, Hispanic or Asian jury for anything? I&#8217;m 100% certain (no doubt whatsoever) that if they lost, the very thought that race played any kind of factor in the their rejection would never, ever even enter into there minds. You can rest assured of that! </p>
<p>Again, do you honestly think PDN would have gone to print with a 24 member all male jury in 2009?</p>
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